Felger & Mazz: Thoughts on Tyquan Thornton’s training camp
According to Tyquan Thornton just beat Ameer Speed for a TD in the back of the EZ from Bailey Zappe
He’s having a good practice
Another bust at WR?
Felger: This, to me, is developing into quite a story, and that is how bad of a start it feels like Tyquan Thornton is off to. And it’s the early stages of another blown draft pick at wide receiver. And that’s certainly not a final analysis, but look, it’s a daily talk show, this is where we are so far in camp, Tyquan Thornton was behind. It feels like he’s just sort of working his way back in. But the reports of the way he’s looked, and I haven’t seen much of him today, the reports of how he has looked and how he’s being used are ominous. And don’t let this be another blown draft pick at wide receiver.
Jim Murray: Well, I mean, based on the camp it’s shaping up to be N’keal Harry 2.0 is what it is. Right now it looks like Tyquan Thornton might be a “suck guy” and the thing that will make it more glaring, and you’ve touched on this before, is looking at that draft and the guys that came after him at that position, specifically George Pickens of the of the Pittsburgh Steelers who looks like an absolute stud and did last year and he only went a couple of picks after Thornton. And then you have Skyy Moore and you got the kid with Indianapolis, Alec Pierce. If any of those guys become real players, and I think Pickens already is, it just makes the Thornton pick look even worse. Just like 2019 with N’Keal Harry.
Tyquan Thornton of the New England Patriots celebrates after scoring a touchdown during a preseason game against the New York Giants at Gillette Stadium on Aug. 11, 2022. (Maddie Meyer/Getty Images)
Joe Murray: I think the biggest issue for him is health, right? If he can’t get on the field, how is he supposed to get reps? He had 22 catches last year. I know, Jim, we did a bunch of postgame shows where this guy dropped balls at times, right? There was a deep ball down the sideline that he missed. I think he can be something different for this offense. He has the speed. But right now he’s working with the scout team. Like that’s where he is. So maybe he has been passed over a little bit, but I just don’t know if they can depend on him because of his injuries. They even sent him out of camp a couple of days ago. But overall, though, there’s a history of Baylor wide receivers who’ve struggled. I don’t know if this is a Big 12 thing but I mean there are guys who come into the league and they don’t transition that well. So, I’m not out on Thornton yet, and let’s remember you guys mentioned N’Keal Harry, they gave him four years. So this is just year two. If he’s not ready to go maybe they do give him the “Foxboro flu” this year and use some of the young guys.
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Patriots roster projection 1.0: Where the roster stands heading into the 'dog days'
The Patriots are just under two weeks into training camp as they hit their second off day of the summer, and it’s been a very eventful two weeks. After a slow start early in camp the offense picked up, with the defense hitting back to wrap up the final full practice of the second block on Thursday.
While there’s still a long way to go, 18 hours of practice time have taught us a lot. Leaders are emerging in positional battles across the roster – some as expected, and others with potential breakout players.
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So as the Patriots hit an off day and transition between the beginning stage of camp and game preparation, let’s take stock of where the roster is at. It’s time for our first roster projection of the summer.
For the purpose of this projection, we’re mainly working off what we’ve seen so far. There is some room to project ahead – and those projections will be noted – but for the most part this is what the roster would look like if the Patriots had to make their cutdowns now. We’ll be back with an updated projection after each preseason game as things change.
Note: Players are listed alphabetically by position. Rookies are in italics.
Quarterbacks (2)
Aug 1, 2023; Foxborough, MA, USA; New England Patriots quarterback Mac Jones (10) warms up during training camp at Gillette Stadium. Credit: Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports
–Mac Jones
–Bailey Zappe
Not much of a surprise here. The Patriots will stick with the same quarterback duo they had for most of last season. As for the new ‘extra QB’ roster rule, Malik Cunningham has been working exclusively with the wide receivers so far this summer, so it doesn’t look like the team plans on doing anything ‘out-of-the-box’ in that regard.
Running backs (4)
Jul 27, 2023; Foxborough, MA, USA; New England Patriots wide receiver Ty Montgomery II (14) takes a hand-off from quarterback Mac Jones (10) during training camp at Gillette Stadium. Credit: Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports
–Kevin Harris
–Ty Montgomery
–Rhamondre Stevenson
–Pierre StrongThe construction of the Patriots’ running back room has been a big topic early in camp. With Stevenson limited for the majority of the practices, and Montgomery hurt since Day 2, the lack of depth has been easily apparent.
Right now, we have Montgomery on. If he can get healthy, it certainly seems like the Patriots have a plan for him based on what we saw in the spring and the first two days of training camp. If he can’t get healthy enough to make the team, it still feels like they’ll end up carrying four backs with that spot going to a free agent.
Wide receivers (5)
New England Patriots wide receivers Demario Douglas (60) and Kendrick Bourne (84) get ready for a drill during 2023 training camp in Foxboro. (Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports)
–Kendrick Bourne
–Demario Douglas
–DeVante Parker
–JuJu Smith-Schuster
–Tyquan ThorntonRight now, the biggest question at the wide receiver position is the battle between Douglas and fellow rookie Kayshon Boutte for the final receiver spot. Is there a scenario where both could end up making the team? Yes. But for now there’s too much of a roster crunch elsewhere to justify it.
Douglas gets the nod over Boutte for two reasons. One, he’s done more. Boutte had what he admitted was a slow start to camp before coming on strong late this week, while Douglas has been in the spotlight since Day 1. The other factor? Fit. And that ties into another receiver’s slow start to camp.
As the 50th overall pick just a season ago, Thornton’s roster spot shouldn’t be in jeopardy. However, his role within the offense could come up for grabs if he can’t get back on the field (he was limited Wednesday and Thursday) and improve on his slow start to camp. Initially, it seems like Thornton would have plenty of leeway because he would bring a speed element the offense wouldn’t otherwise have. If Douglas can provide the speed and play at an NFL level, he could edge out Thornton for snaps. We’re still a long way from that happening, but things have gotten to the point where it’s at least worth discussing.
Tight ends (2)
Aug 1, 2023; Foxborough, MA, USA; New England Patriots tight end Hunter Henry (85) (right) works with tight end Johnny Lumpkin (65) (left) during training camp at Gillette Stadium. Credit: Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports
–Mike Gesicki
–Hunter HenrySo far, Henry has been the best skill player for the Patriots in camp. After a slow start, Gesicki has started to come along as well.
That leaves the third tight end spot up for grabs. It seems like veteran Matt Sokol is the favorite right now, but he’s a player the Patriots should be able to get to the practice squad and elevate on gamedays for the first few weeks until another roster spot opens up.
Offensive line (9)
New England Patriots center David Andrews (60) works with a tackling sled during 2023 training camp in Foxboro. (Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports)
–C David Andrews
–C/G Jake Andrews
–T Trent Brown
–G Atonio Mafi
–T Conor McDermott
–G/T Mike Onwenu
–T Riley Reiff
–T Sidy Sow
–G Cole StrangeIn recent years the Patriots have gone thinner on the offensive line, keeping only seven or eight players and then taking advantage of the practice squad elevation rules to add depth when and where needed. However, with three linemen drafted in the top 150 this year, it’s harder to justify doing that. In order to keep those players on their rookie deals, expect the team to roster more lineman than usual.
At the same time, expect them to keep some of their more trusted veterans around on the practice squad. That group includes players like James Ferentz, Bill Murray and Kody Russey, who have seen plenty of time in camp with injuries ahead of them on the depth chart.
Also, we’re not including tackle Calvin Anderson on this roster projection. Anderson is currently on the Non-Football Illness list, and Bill Belichick sounded legitimately unsure about a timeline for him when asked earlier this week. If Anderson opens the season on the NFI list, he’d have to miss the first six weeks before the team could activate him.
Defensive line (6)
Jul 27, 2023; Foxborough, MA, USA; New England Patriots defensive end Lawrence Guy (93) stretches during training camp at Gillette Stadium. Credit: Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports
–Christian Barmore
–Carl Davis
–Davon Godchaux
–Lawrence Guy
–Keion White
–Deatrich WiseOur post-spring roster projection has Guy not making the team due to his holdout. However, he’s since reported to training camp and been a full participant. It seems like the team is planning on having him on the roster in 2023.
The tough cut here is Daniel Ekuale. Ekuale has been with the Patriots the last two years, and provides good depth behind Christian Barmore as a pass-rushing defensive tackle. That being said, he’s a player the team could likely get through waivers and then put back on the roster once the initial 53 is set and players have been placed on IR.
Linebackers (8)
Aug 3, 2023; Foxborough, MA, USA; New England Patriots linebacker Anfernee Jennings (33) and linebacker Ja’Whaun Bentley (8) run though a drill at training camp at Gillette Stadium. Credit: Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports
–Ja’Whaun Bentley
–Chris Board
–Anfernee Jennings
–Matthew Judon
–Marte Mapu
–Jahlani Tavai
–Josh Uche
–Mack WilsonYes, this is a lot of linebackers. But the Patriots have a lot of talent at linebacker, and all of these players bring a different element to the field. On a Patriots’ defense that figures to be rotation-heavy, keeping this many players makes sense. Some players will handle other roles too, like Mapu contributing at safety or Jennings adding depth as a hybrid defensive lineman.
Part of the reason this group stays so deep is that everybody has showed up. Wilson and Jennings are the two players closest to the bubble, but Wilson has been a constant play-maker in camp – especially against coverage – and Jennings has regularly repped with the top unit – as he did last year. Based on what we’ve seen so far, it’s hard to justify keeping either player off the roster.
The number of players here is also slightly inflated by the presence of Board. Primarily a special teams player, Board has repped enough with the defense so far this summer to land in this category, rather than with the rest of the specialists.
Cornerbacks (5)
New England Patriots cornerback Christian Gonzalez at 2023 minicamp in Foxboro. (Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports)
–Myles Bryant
–Christian Gonzalez
–Jack Jones
–Jonathan Jones
–Marcus JonesThe Patriots’ top cornerback group is pretty locked in, but this position also features one of the toughest cuts on the roster right now. Rookie seventh-round pick Isaiah Bolden has come on strong since the pads came on at practice, to the point where he was getting time with the top defense during live reps on Thursday.
At the same time, it’s early and Bolden’s evaluation is based on just a couple of practices. Right now he’s just off the roster, and a candidate to be re-added once initial IR placements are made. He could also find himself more in lock for a roster spot if Jack Jones can’t start the season due to his legal issues.
Safeties (5)
Safety Kyle Dugger at Patriots training camp. (Alex Barth/98.5 The Sports Hub)
–Joshuah Bledsoe
–Kyle Dugger
–Jalen Mills
–Jabrill Peppers
–Adrian PhillipsBledsoe’s inclusion might surprise some people, but the coaching staff is high on his abilities. He also has had a good start to camp. The rest of this group is chalk, building what is probably the best single position room on the Patriots’ roster.
Specialists (3)
New England Patriots kicker Chad Ryland warms up during 2023 minicamp in Foxboro. (Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports)
–K Chad Ryland
–P Bryce Baringer
–LS Joe CardonaThe Patriots’ rookie specialists have done nothing but impress so far in training camp. They seem to be edging out their veteran counterparts for their jobs.
Special teamers (4)
Matthew Slater practices for the New England Patriots at 2023 OTAs in Foxboro. (Matt Dolloff/98.5 The Sports Hub)
–Jourdan Heilig
–DaMarcus Mitchell
–Brenden Schooler
–Matthew SlaterHeilig has been working extensively with Slater in practice, a strong sign he’s in line for a roster spot. He’d extend the team’s UDFA Week 1 streak to 20 years. There are other players here just off the roster, including Raleigh Webb and Calvin Munson. Cody Davis should also be in consideration if he comes off PUP after suffering a serious knee injury last year.
Bubble Watch
Jul 27, 2023; Foxborough, MA, USA; New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick heads to the podium for a morning press conference before training camp at Gillette Stadium. Credit: Eric Canha-USA TODAY Sports
Last 3 on:
–Ty Montgomery
–Anfernee Jennings
–DaMarcus MitchellLast 3 off:
–Daniel Ekuale
–Isaiah Bolden
–Kayson Boutte
