Socci’s View: A conversation about ‘The Dynasty’ with Jeff Benedict.
On Friday, Feb. 16, Apple TV+ will release the 10-episode series, “The Dynasty: New England Patriots,” based on the New York Times bestselling book by author Jeff Benedict.
Bob Socci spoke to Benedict about the end of Bill Belichick’s 24-year tenure as Patriots head coach, the hiring of Jerod Mayo and The Dynasty, which is directed by Emmy-winning filmmaker Matthew Hamachek and produced by Imagine Documentaries.
Benedict, who serves as one of the project’s executive producers, discusses the process of turning his book into a television series; including access to Patriots owner Robert Kraft, quarterback Tom Brady and Belichick; editorial control of the content; and his process for researching and writing his book, which is now out in paperback.
Following is the full interview and edited transcript of their conversation.
BS: Jeff, in the epilogue of your book, you quote Longfellow: “Great is the art of the beginning, but greater is the art of the ending.” How will the ending of this (Patriots) dynasty be viewed in an historical context?
JB: I’m really glad you brought up Longfellow, because I actually hadn’t thought of that; at least not more recently. But I think artful is probably the best term for it. And, it’s fitting that a poet from New England would come up with that, because when I wrote that particular passage, I was thinking about the unwinding of the dynasty and obviously I was writing the epilogue, which is the portion of the book where Tom Brady leaves. I thought that was quite an amazing departure. When you fast forward, what’s now been four years have transpired since then, and when you look at Bill’s departure, I think artful is a great way to describe it. So often when these kinds of partnerships finally come to an end, they usually end bitterly. They end with rancor. They end with ugliness. They end with finger pointing; accusations. It almost like everybody forgets all of the great stuff we did. And I think what’s remarkable about the way the Patriots ended their dynasty is they did it in a way that’s unusually classy and stylish and respectful. And I do think that there was a lot of genuine expression of appreciation expressed at the press conference where Robert (Kraft) and Bill (Belichick) essentially said goodbye. Obviously, that was different than the way Tom said goodbye. But I think actually it was really fitting for both. Like the way Tom did it with Robert was really appropriate for the relationship they had. And I think the way Robert and Bill did it, it’s really fitting of the kind of relationship that they have. Robert described it, he referenced a marriage in those remarks that day. I think marriage is a really good word. I mean, marriages have points in time where you have to work through hard things. They’re not always smooth. But the good ones have longevity and they’ve worked through those things, and I think this marriage did that and produced more than you could ever imagine in a business relationship. So, look, there’s a lot of things you can say about the Patriots dynasty that distinguishes it from predecessors like the Steelers, the 49ers and the Packers. But here’s another one to add to the pile, which is the way they ended it is unique. Probably unprecedented. Probably won’t see it again.
BS: You wrote in your New York Times editorial, an essay that was published the day after the (Jan. 11) press conference, that Bill was dispassionate in personnel decisions. How do you think Robert got past his emotions after this long and successful marriage, to reach the decision he came to (regarding) Bill?
JB: Well, first of all, let me just say that writing that New York Times essay was one of the harder things I’ve written in my career, and I’ve written for over 25 years and I’ve written a lot of different things, including a lot of essays for The New York Times over the years. This one was hard because, partly, the limitations of the word count. You know, you have to really distill it down to the point. But also it’s hard to provide context around that to make sure people get the right message. And really, what I was trying to say there is, if you think about the way this started – and history is so important here – but that moment where Bill walks into Robert’s office before coaching his first game in New England and hands him that vintage picture of Babe Ruth and Ted Williams and says, you know, essentially, thank you for the opportunity to coach your team and hope maybe we can be as successful as these two fellas. You could look at that and say, you know, that’s pretty cocky. That’s pretty cocky. That’s one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is this is a man who A) has a great sense of history, and B) has a lot of confidence in what he and Robert are about to do together. And I think it’s the latter that really stands out as you get to the end. So how does Robert deal with that? I think he dealt with the unwinding of it with one of the mottos he’s followed his whole career, which is, ‘Measure nine times and cut once.’ He used that motto when he hired Bill, which is why he didn’t hire him when he first wanted to hire him, which was right after parting ways with Bill Parcells. He wanted to hire him then. He thought he was the best coach out there. But in his measuring, he chose to not do that yet. And that’s not what Bill wanted. Bill wanted to come in right then. I think that’s how he handled the ending. You know, there was a lot of measuring going on. That’s the way Robert is. He’s not like all the other owners, who rapidly fire coaches all over the place and go through turnstiles, and it’s much more contemplative; it’s much more thoughtful. And I think, you know, ultimately it was done respectfully and with the right timing.
BS: Moving on to Jerod Mayo, for many on the outside, it seems like the decision that Robert made was reached without ‘measuring the nine times’ because it happened so quickly. Do you think that Robert, over time, measured those nine times before he made (his) decision to appoint Jerod Mayo as the next coach in line?
JB: It’s a great question. I’m glad you asked it, because it’s a good opportunity to sort of clarify a few things. I think, first of all, the notion that Robert would make a (rash) decision at this point in his life is so sort of…it’s remarkable that anybody would even think he would do that. He’s had the same methodology his whole business career, why would he abandon it when he’s 82 years old? I mean, that just doesn’t make sense, first of all, on its face. Second of all, he didn’t make the decision, you know, just recently. This is like all the other big decisions he makes. There aren’t very many decisions that are as big in football as choosing a head coach. It’s like one of the most important decisions an owner has to make, if not the most important. It’s who you’re going to hand the steering wheel to for the ship. And so, I think back to, I mean, I think this is a decision that Robert has been mulling for a long time. Just like, contextually, just like Bill thought for a long time about the successor for quarterback. He was thinking about that way before Tom ultimately left. I mean, he was thinking about that when he drafted Jimmy Garoppolo in 2014. I think both Robert and Bill, they’re methodical in their thinking. They’re plotters and in a good way. I go back to a trip that I took to Israel with the Patriots while I was writing the book. That was in the summer of 2019. Jerod Mayo was on that trip. That’s actually the first time I met Jerod Mayo. But what I remember distinctly about that trip, and I’ve never, I don’t think I’ve ever talked about this before, but Robert spent a lot of time with Jerod on that trip. Robert, he’s the kind of guy that can make you feel like you’re alone in conversation when you’re in a group with him. And he brought 15 players, at least, and their wives or spouses, girlfriends, whatever, on that trip. I was fortunate to go, and he took a lot of one-on-one time with all of the different players who came, past and present on that trip; Jerod being one. I was a witness to one of the walks and talks they took alone. I walked with them – I didn’t talk, but I walked – and I listened to a remarkable conversation that had nothing to do with football. It was actually about history and race relations, and talking about both what’s happened historically to Jews and to Blacks in this country. And it was remarkable to listen to because it was so unusual for the kind of discussion you might assume would happen between a a former football player, current coach, and an owner of an NFL team. But we were in the Holy Land. It actually was the perfect environment for that conversation. All I’m saying from that is, I think that there was a lot that could be picked up from that conversation that would stand out as Jerod Mayo is a rather remarkable man that has a lot more going on for him than just gravitas as a player and a potential coach. And I think he probably has a lot of things that stand out, (that) stood out to Robert as someone who was different and unique and futuristic in terms of his abilities to lead man. And so I don’t think this decision was made recently. I think it’s a decision that he arrived at over time. That’s what I think.
(Photo/Simon & Schuster)
BS: You mentioned race, and it’s inescapable in the discussion about Jerod becoming the first Black coach of the New England Patriots. In (your) book, you write about Bobby Grier and his appointment (in 1995), breaking the glass ceiling as (Patriots) director of player personnel, (becoming) in essence, the first black general manager in the NFL. How important do you think it is to Robert (Kraft) and his legacy that the next coach of the New England Patriots, only the third that he’s hired, is someone like Jerod, who not only is Black but really represents, I think, all the qualities Robert was looking for in his next head coach?
JB: I mean, I think anybody who’s accomplished as much are going to put Robert in the category with Bill and Tom for just a second. All three of those men, it makes perfect sense that they would be very aware of their legacy because they have big ones and anyone who’s accomplished as much as either of those three men, you know, you get to a point where you do think about your legacy and how it’s shaped. But I think one of the things that’s really clear about all three of those guys is: they always made decisions on merit. They would never hire people, whether it’s players, personnel, who to throw the ball to, who to put it in the game, who to hire as an executive, based on something like that. They would always pick the person that is going to help them get to the goal, which is to win, right? And so I don’t think that Robert thought about that when he hired Bobby Grier. I think what he thought was that Bobby Grier was the best man for the job, and there were a lot of reasons for that. I think a benefit of that might be the fact that he effectively became the first Black GM, even though technically Ozzie Newsome was the first one to have the title in Cleveland. Bobby Grier was that in New England first. And I think with Jerod Mayo, I mean, ultimately, what you really want is you want to pick the guy, the man that you believe is the best to captain the ship. And they decided it was Jerod. And I think on top of that…it’s telling that race really wasn’t a factor, which is, actually, what the NFL has tried so hard to achieve and can’t. Right? They come up with the Rooney Rule and all this stuff to try to do what Robert has done naturally. And I think that’s kind of the beauty of what’s going on in New England. It’s more organic. And so, it’s not a bad thing that the media focuses on Jerod’s race. It’s natural that they would focus on that. But the point is, what we should really be focusing on is, guys, this is like how it’s done. It’s merit. And if other teams did that, probably there’d be more Black coaches filling out the ranks than there is right now, because there’s obviously plenty of former players who have great coaching bonafides like Jerod and some of these other guys that have actually broken through.
BS: In the trailer for The Dynasty series, Robert says “we were determining the future of football in New England.” You made it clear in your essay that Bill Belichick’s genius can’t be replicated. What is the future of football in New England? This team has a lot of work to do these next several seasons under Jerod Mayo’s direction as the head coach of this team. How will the past two and a half decades inform these next few years?
JB: That’s a good question. And if I’m being completely honest, which is what I prefer to be in these interviews, I have no idea. I’m not really comfortable being a prognosticator because my job as a writer, as an author is, I’m interested in the historical. And so the book “The Dynasty” is a book about building the greatest sports dynasty in American history. And I feel like I know a fair amount about that; I’m really comfortable. But I’ve never been comfortable predicting things. So, what I’d rather do is point to history and say, look, when Bill came in and three months later, Tom came in right behind him, nobody had remotely close to any idea of what was about to happen. Right? But a lot of thought went into who to bring in and how to structure things. The business was set up well, and then a lot of magic took place over the next 20 years. It’s really hard to come in behind someone like the Mickey Mantle Yankees, the Bill Russell Celtics, the Michael Jordan Bulls, the Joe Montana 49ers. Well, this group has raised the bar to an even higher level than all those teams I just mentioned in football. To do what these guys did seems impossible. And perhaps a little unfair to sort of look at Jerod and say, ‘Okay, what are you going to do?’ He needs some time, right? And he’s going to carve out his own niche. Is it fair to expect a repeat? No, it’s not. I’m not saying that they can’t do great things in the future, but I really do think historically this has been a moment in time not to be repeated. I really believe that. Doesn’t mean the Patriots can’t win more Super Bowls in the future. You know, the Steelers have won a couple more since their dynastic run in the 70s. They’ve come back and won some Super Bowls and been a great team. But they haven’t replicated what they did in the 70s. And I think for the Patriots, it would be really hard and probably unrealistic to think about doing a 20-year run like they just did.
BS: Well, it won’t be repeated, but we can relive it starting February 16th. You’re the executive producer. Ron Howard, Brian Grazer head up the team of creative people, as some of the best in Hollywood, as producers of this docu series. How did this group come together? And how did you take your book to television?
JB: That’s a good question. And one name I’d add to that makes you just said is the director, Matt Hamachek, who did an absolutely outstanding job with ten episodes, which is a major lift in (the)documentary world. But really, I’ll just say, when I started writing The Dynasty early, early on – so I’m not talking about when I had a finished book; I’m talking about when I first started putting pen to paper – I thought that this would make a fantastic documentary series. I thought it deserved 10 episodes because the Bulls and Michael Jordan got 10 episodes for “The Last Dance.” I think this is a better story than that. I know Bulls fans won’t like that, but this isn’t the story of one man, which that kind of was. This is the story of a team, a dynastic team that had a 20-year run and a lot more archival footage to work with then was available for The Last Dance series. So when you start looking at the factors that it takes to make a 10-part series, there was a richness here that didn’t exist even for The Last Dance in terms of archival (footage). As soon as I wrote that last scene, which you referenced at the beginning of our conversation today, where Tom leaves, the minute I finished that scene, I turned my attention to the documentary series; because I had almost eight months or so before the book went on sale. And that whole spring (and) summer, I was starting to put the pieces together to do a documentary series. We actually went out to potential production companies and streamers around the time that Tom Brady was in the Super Bowl for Tampa Bay. It was by spring-summer of that year, we were off to the races…Two and a half years sounds like a long time, but when you’re talking about 10 parts, that’s not long; that’s actually really fast. Because of Imagine (Documentaries’) ability to marshal a lot of production partners and resources, we had the help of the Patriots, because we had access to a lot of their footage, we had to help with NFL films, because we had a lot of access to their footage, it was a massive effort, a massive team and a great team, to do something like this. A lot of really good collaboration.
BS: Is the scene in Atlanta (after Super Bowl LIII), the last scene in the book, the last scene of the series? How current will it be? Will it include what’s transpired in recent weeks, recent months?
JB: So I, I’m precluded from talking about the ending in interviews it air before the series. But what I can say is I can at least say ‘No, it doesn’t end in the same place the book does.’ I can certainly say that. And I can say that, you know, we obviously were creating the documentary – we didn’t even start working on the documentary until after the last scene of the book was written and Tom Brady had marched off to Tampa Bay – and so, I think we felt as storytellers, we had an obligation in the documentary series to, to cover, to some extent what had transpired after the epilogue of the book. And we do that.
BS: What kind of commitment did you get from Tom, Bill and Robert in terms of time and their willingness in general to sit down with you?
JB: Yeah. So. I had participation from all of them in the book, and their participation for the book was different and unique to them as people and how they are and how they operate. But all exceptional in terms of what they gave me to write The Dynasty. And I would say a similar thing about their participation and cooperation for the series. They all gave, and they’re obviously all on camera, which is in and of itself, I think, unprecedented for any film project that’s been done over the years. You know, there have been some other series. Tom’s made two series of his own, one for Facebook and one for ESPN. And NFL films has made many films over the years. But this one has the three. And to me, those three principles on camera, each in their own style and delivery, it’s very authentic. When you see the three of them, obviously we interview them at different times and in different places. But they are so authentic in their roles, sitting in the chair and talking to them. And I think Patriots fans who feel like they know those three men better than perhaps the rest of the fans in the country, I think when Patriots fans see Robert, Bill and Tom on camera alone talking, they will say, ‘That’s Bill. That is true Tom. And that is true Robert.’ And people who don’t know them as well, all the fans who live outside New England and maybe can’t stand the Patriots, I think when you watch these three guys on camera, you can’t help, if you’re really being honest – if you’re a Jets fan, a Giants fan, a Dolphins fan, a Steelers fan, a Raiders fan – you can’t help but say, ‘Damn, I wish we had those guys.’
BS: Jeff, how much editorial control did anyone outside of you and the creative team that we’ve mentioned, the producers and director, have on this project?
JB: Well, we as filmmakers, we had editorial control, just like I had it for the book. Look, if you look at the book, there’s clearly things in the book that if the Patriots controlled the book wouldn’t have been in the book. You know, it’s just it’s just public relations 101 is that there’s a lot of storylines in The Dynasty itself – the book I’m talking about – that if the Patriots had editorial control, you don’t publish that. And I think you’d say the same thing about the film. You know, it’s an honest, emotional, gripping portrayal of what’s gone on here for the last 20 years. And, we were fortunate to be able to do that. I feel extremely fortunate as a writer to have been able to write on both of these projects. I’m going to put them as a singular dream job. I mean, I can partition them into two different things because they are two different things. But for me, this has been six years now for me with the team, with this team, with this organization. For my career, six years is a long time. Long time. Usually you don’t spend that much time on any project, any singular project. But these have been six great years and I appreciate the opportunity to tell the story and to have the trust to do it.
BS: Within a year, your book was published and Seth Wickersham’s book (It’s Better to be Feared) was published. You note Seth in your acknowledgments. There’s so much written about the Patriots dynasty from various vantage points, various angles. How do the books contrast with one another? How do they complement one another?
JB: Well, that’s hard for me to answer because I haven’t read Seth’s book, so I don’t know. What I can say is I’ve done a lot of books over the years, and the reason I say that is just that there’s a lot of different ways to go at a project. I did a biography with Steve Young where he literally commissioned me; he paid me to write in his voice. Perfectly appropriate, professional thing to do. I wasn’t a ghost writer; I was a writer for hire. It’s not my book; it’s his book. I’ve done biographies on LeBron James and Tiger Woods where I wrote in third person, so they did not commission me. That was my take on their life. The Patriots book, I could have done it that way. But my publisher, Simon Schuster and I, collectively, we felt that in order to do this particular book, this story the way it should be done, which is told from the inside, I needed the participation of the team. I needed the cooperation, the access. My publisher told me, if it takes you years to build the appropriate trust, you can write other books while you do that. In fact, that’s why I had started LeBron before I started The Dynasty, and then I had to put LeBron on hold. Because when I finally broke through in New England, I had to push pause on LeBron. And so what I can say is that for six years I’ve been in the building. I’ve been around these people. I’m not ashamed or afraid to say I have a relationship with a lot of people in the organization. I say that about a lot of people I’ve written about. There is a benefit to building relationships and gaining trust because it allows you a depth and truthfulness in reporting that can’t be gotten any other way. And that’s the book that I wrote. I can’t speak about a book that I haven’t read. I know the title, but that’s about all I know.
BS: Have you screened the series for any test audiences? Will there be surprises for Patriots fans?
JB: Yes, there’s a lot of those. I mean, first of all, I think when you’re doing your job properly, I never go into any project where there’s all these preconceived conceptions about what the storyline is and how it ends. And I came into this thing very open minded, and I hadn’t been around the team ever. I didn’t know anybody. I’ve never covered this team. I’m talking about when I started the book. I had no in, in New England. I didn’t know Tom or Bill or Robert or, I didn’t know any of these guys. And so I came in with no preconceived notions. And I was like, every day on the project was a surprise, and that’s the way it should be. Honestly, I can say that about writing (about) LeBron and Tiger as well: lots of surprises. But what happens is when you write an immersive book like this, so much of it is trying to get people comfortable enough to talk to you and to open up a little bit. And if you do it right, the book comes out, and what happens is people who trusted you a little bit and talk to you a little bit, then they see the book and they go, ‘Okay.’ First of all, it’s a big sigh of relief. Like, ‘Thankfully he didn’t like he didn’t abuse whatever trust I gave him. He didn’t abuse me. He didn’t exploit and take me out of context.’ When you do that and you have the luxury of then doing a documentary, people will actually open up even more, because they trust you. You’ve validated the trust now. So we saw that in Tiger I, we wrote a biography on Tiger, and a lot of people in (the book) Tiger kind of hedged their bets a little bit and how far they go. We even had people in Tiger that wouldn’t talk at all; they were afraid. Then the book came out and some of those people called and said, ‘I wish I had talked to you.’ But now we’re doing a documentary for HBO (and) they talked for that, and they went far. And we found this in this Dynasty project. There’s lots of things that I learned in the second round of interviews for the series that I didn’t know when I wrote the book. And I actually believe not only will Patriots fans be absolutely surprised by a lot of what they see, Patriots players are going to be surprised by things that they see in this series…Never mind the fans that are outside New England, who don’t even know as much as New England fans, I think they’re going to be blown away. Like, everyone would wish that something like this could be made about their team.
